DLA to PIP

[WobblyGreg]

On 01/11/2018 at 17:20, Shirl said:

 

SHIRL

Not sure whether you saw my earlier post.

 

But forgot to say after my appeal ended I got the result confirmed in letter form said my thank you's turned around stumbled just about corrected myself with my stick and freind grabbing me .

 

When we got outside my freind said " And you couldn't have done than when we walked in " 🤗

[Shirl]

20 hours ago, WobblyGreg said:

SHIRL

Not sure whether you saw my earlier post.

 

But forgot to say after my appeal ended I got the result confirmed in letter form said my thank you's turned around stumbled just about corrected myself with my stick and freind grabbing me .

 

When we got outside my freind said " And you couldn't have done than when we walked in " 🤗

Hi @WobblyGreg

I did read your latest posts and I'm glad you've reached an award after a very difficult and lengthy process. The system has become too complex and weighted against those who are vulnerable and ill.

 

If 'catching' false claimants was necessary, it could have been done without labelling us all guilty until proven innocent. The DLA to PIP situation should not have arisen.

 

However, many of us have lived through the process and can now support those who have yet to experience it. Seeking advice and filling in forms, so that DWP and appointees comprehend our mobility and daily living issues in their own language, have become necessary reactions.

 

Sadly the W for Welfare has weakened to the point of being broken. We did not ask to have this neurological condition.

 

I hope you feel stronger this week.

[WobblyGreg]

Shirl

Thanks for reply.

Yes I feel stronger but it's like that come down one gets after a bout of adrenaline .

 

I will of course make a claim in future but I am lucky enough to be able to live on what I get now.

 

As I am now back on everyone's radar costing the country a fortune which is something DWP don't seem to grasp.

 

Money back from mobility car ,backdated money from Tribunal award.

 

With the deals car dealers are doing at the moment I'm probably paying same as DLA was for car.

 

Monthly I'm the difference between DLA high and PIP STANDARD  worse off .

But I'm glad I'm now getting something and I can relax for 5 years at least .

 

[Nick]

I've just been trying to catch up on this thread. 

 

The thing that amazes me is the clear inconsistances of peoples DWP 'results'  A system purely based on a computer algorithm, nothing more, nothing less.  I believe this was originally an american system, adapted for use in it's current form.  

 

I was originally under the impression that the DWP would ask questions from our specialists.  Since my own award (which was also 'wrong') I have spoken to various members of my MS 'team' and have discovered that it appears they are vary rarely contacted directly from the DWP. 

 

This is the mistake I made. I should have initialy ask the neurologist, MS Nurse, Continence Nurse, Physio' & Wheelchair Services for written reports, prior to submitting my first application. 

 

Of course, if you remember, the initial forms come with the caveat that they be returned within a short period (can't recall exactly but think it was a month) Which makes it highly unlikely that all of that could be arranged. At the same time it seems very counter productive that those valuable specialists should spend their time doing the DWP's work for them. 

 

Going back to the computer algorithm,  These things rely on the quality of the information put into them, in this case there were clearly  a LOT of flaws! hence the mayhem that has been caused since it's introduction. A system then with poor efficiency, one that presently is costing more than the previous DLA system. Which by the way had a low percentage of fraudulent claims. 

 

My conclusion is that even though this was designed to save money, yet has cost more, it is unlikely to be scrapped. So prior to applying for PIP you need to gather as much written evidence as you can , I would also recomend subscribing to the 'Benefits&Work' website  

 

PIP claim help, plus ESA, DLA & Universal Credit

WWW.BENEFITSANDWORK.CO.UK

---

Get the benefits you're entitled to: help with employment and support allowance (ESA), personal independence payment (PIP), universal credit (UC), disability living allowance (DLA). Claims, assessments, appeals.

 

for their excellent guides and I would also seek professional help from one of the charities. 

 

Nick

[Shirl]

8 minutes ago, Nick said:

Of course, if you remember, the initial forms come with the caveat that they be returned within a short period (can't recall exactly but think it was a month) Which makes it highly unlikely that all of that could be arranged. At the same time it seems very counter productive that those valuable specialists should spend their time doing the DWP's work for them. 

Yes, @Nick my main complaint about the 'application system' was the ridiculous timescale. Indeed, the forms are sent to you on a certain date, after the initial telephone call to 'apply' (for something you already have but now need a new 'award' under a different product name). From that date you have four weeks to return the application. Given that mine took one week to arrive and I had to allow another week for the return journey, I had two weeks to compile my forms. Then came the face-to-face assessment where every i and t is dotted or crossed to ensure compliance with the computer's requirements.

 

It would not be possible to predict when your DLA will end and PIP application be requested/invited/mandatory  so expecting medical professionals to jump through hoops is wishful thinking in the extreme. I relied on accumulated evidence of hospital letters of which I had plenty. Never throw them away! That's letters following an admission or appointment, not appointment notifications. You can discard those via the shredder, thus keeping your records specific.

 

Plus my secret weapon was my dear husband - he used to work for a national charity where he advised and supported claimants. He is now retired but his experience and calm kept me sane. (He would not advise anyone else as his professional experience is no longer valid to others). We still had to work through those forms but he was able to deal with my emotional outbursts to construct a readable, coherent response. For that reason, I advocate getting the support of someone with current hands-on experience, or a charitable organisation skilled in these matters, like BenefitsandWork - even then, you need to act quickly. The whole thing took over our lives for two weeks and that, on top of dealing with a lifelong incurable (so far) disease is stressful and unfair. But that is stating the obvious.

 

I've probably repeated comments I made earlier in this thread. Sadly that is the nature of the topic - unending misery for all who encounter the application process. Stay strong.

 

[WobblyGreg]

@Shirl

Had a strange phone call yesterday whilst out taking son to school ( later than normal  school run)

 

My daughter said DWP rang said they wanted to speak to me about tribunal 

They were meant to ring back this morning never did!

 

I dialed last no ring back said caller withheld number .

My intial thought was DWP Usually send letter and it was scam ?

 

Any thoughts ?....

[Shirl]

4 hours ago, WobblyGreg said:

@Shirl

Had a strange phone call yesterday whilst out taking son to school ( later than normal  school run)

 

My daughter said DWP rang said they wanted to speak to me about tribunal 

They were meant to ring back this morning never did!

 

I dialed last no ring back said caller withheld number .

My intial thought was DWP Usually send letter and it was scam ?

 

Any thoughts ?....

I had a letter from an outsourced group after my DWP claim, followed by a phone call. They were based in London. The call proved useless (even though I was happy to give useful feedback) because the caller thought I'd been to an ESA Assessment centre, This was following my successful PIP claim. So we had to curtail the call before confusion drove me battier than usual.

 

I think this may have been a similar call to you. It is up to you if you comply - it shouldn't be mandatory or too invasive. Hopefully.

[WobblyGreg]

@Shirl 

Funnily enough they rang again today same sort of time and yes I  was out again lol

Thanks for advice I hate DWP so much my hackles are instantly up.

If I'm about I will see what they say and let you know.

[WobblyGreg]

I have been advised that the following is what I should say if the Nazi DWP Ring again..

DWP are not entitled to discuss your appeal award with you, so don't.  If DWP try to insist you discuss your appeal award, tell them they must ask the judge for a statement of reasons (SOR).  This is what they should do if they have a question about the tribunal's decision.

[WobblyGreg]

Well the letter arrived 
Just asked if I'd been in hospital or prison and if bank details were the same.

Sent a 2nd class return envelope I took picture of everything and will send back today.

[Nick]

You may recall that my PIP application process back in 1018 was successful, although I had to concede my original 'higher rate' mobility for the lower rate.(I could have appealed but decided not to)  So here we are approaching 2020 and once again I must start thinking about PIP. The claim runs out this coming august and there is already a need to start planning for it!! What a pain!   Generally speaking I see my neurologist once a year and I saw him a couple of weeks ago. This was an opportunity for me to discuss PIP.  I don't really feel that any neurologist should be spending their valuable time on bureaucracy , however  he was only too glad to discuss this forthcoming claim and told me that I should be able to claim the higher rate of mobility.  He has provided me with a covering letter, describing my diagnosis and limited mobility.  

It's apparent the DWP rarely, if ever contact specialists directly from the details on the completed application, rather depending on what documentation the applicant includes.  Even then I wonder if any of that gets read! 

The dilemma now facing me is exactly how I fill in that form. I shall be doing these with the support of the Benefits&Work website, to which I subscribe, thereby having access to the full range of advice.  When it comes to the mobility section I have a choice of 'how far can you walk' 

That is where it gets complicated ! Certainly I can walk more than 20 Mts, but can I do that repeatedly? can I do that on a bad day? can I do that when my MS hits me, or is affected by a UTI, or those other outside influences? Then the answer is no, so do I tick the box that says "It varies" 

These are the finer points of how hard it is to get across anything meaningful on a form whose decisions are made, not by a person, but by an algorithm in a computer. 

As time ticks along I will keep you all informed on how things progress.

 

Nick 

[Stumbler]

@Nick , I'm sure BoJo appreciates your sacrifice, for the good of the country. So, your reduced award was for two years? Did they really expect you to be cured in this timeframe?

I'm still waiting for my invitation to apply for PIP. However, you should indicate that you can't walk 20 metres. Why give them the opportunity to mark you down? They don't need more encouragement.

 

Well done for being prepared. Take no prisoners this time......... 

 

[Nick]

Thanks for that John,

What gets me is the legal aspect of all this.  The law is not clear, so how can you honestly decide just how you answer the question. It's all very well to simply tick the box, yet that fails to address the problem............I know, I know..I should not be concerned about all this, but it does annoy me!

What I would say is that the physical"Interview" by theDWP (apparently not a medical) is a complete waste of time and money. What does matter is understanding how to answer all those questions correctly and understanding what those questions actually refer to.  The reason it annoys me so much is that for many people the complexity of this means that the outcomes are simply in favour of the governments reduction in health care. 

Yet for all that they are apparently spending more money on these outsourced schemes than they would if they simply scrapped the whole thing.

A legacy I believe of right wing politics and a chap called IDS. 

[Stumbler]

Yes, @Nick , you do need to fully understand the questions AND the correct way to answer said questions. Preparation is so key.

 

I don't get dragged into actual political discussions - too divisive! They're all as bad as one another!

 

[Nick]

That's a wise answer! 

 

 

 

[Nick]

Another new form arrived last week. This was the recently introduced ' PIP Review award form' (AR1) The purpose of this form is intended to speed up the process and is handled directly by the case manager rather than a health professional. 

Oh the Joy of it all!

In my case this arrived a few months before my claim was due to expire. It has taken me all week to fill it in properly and to get the various documents ready.  So a word of caution, Do make sure you get suitable letters from Neurologists , doctors etc EVEN before you get the form. The form has to be returned within a narrow time scale, of around a month. In my case it arrived a week after being generated at the DWP, and took a week to fill in, so time is short. I had taken the hint from others and had already seen my neurologist at the end of last year. He had provided me with a written statement of my present condition. 

The form concentrates mainly on what has changed. So keeping careful records of visits to physiotherapists, MS Nurses and doctors is important.

I was surprised at the number of changes that had occurred since my last assessment, and just having the old appointment letters is useful as an aid memoir.

With myself,  the big thorny question is always,'how far can you walk'. This question is difficult to understand. The benefits&works, members guides are very useful here in explaining the importance of words like 'reliably' and 'repeatedly'.  It's one thing walking on a flat level surface, another on a sloping uneven pavement, and what about the falls and potential falls.

 As part of a trail that I am now involved with I recently managed 50 Meters on a flat level floor, but my EDSS worked out as being 6.5.  My Neurologists letter states I should be on the higher level for Mobility under PIP, but the DWP doesn't seem to work like that.

I await with trepidation!

 

 

 

[Nick]

Face-to-face health assessments for benefits suspended amid coronavirus outbreak - GOV.UK

WWW.GOV.UK

---

Claimants on disability benefits will no longer be required to attend face-to-face assessments. The change also covers health checks for Universal Credit.

 

[Nick]

Well here we are at the end of June and yesterday I finally got the decision makers decision on my PIP review award started back in March.  

So it would seem that the processing of these awards is now being dealt with again, after the delays caused by the Pandemic.  The first thing is that the decision is a fair one, and I did not need to go to yet another face to face assessment.  

You may recall that the original process of my changing from DLA to PIP saw them apply a review period of only 18 months!! This time I am happy to report that the review period is 9 years..........much more sensible. 

It all sounds good, but it was clear looking at the paperworks allocation of points, that my careful and thorough application, which included full documentation and reference was never really referred to. Rather it was obvious that the forms had been simply processed via the tick box answers, with little reference to the included papers, or notes. I say this because the forms are incapable of dealing with such a difficult and varying condition such as MS. and while I am happy with the outcome, I do question the matter of mobility. I am, as was my previous review, on the standard rate for mobility. 

As per the tick box on this section stating I was able to mobilise between 20 & 50 Meters.  As many of us know things are not that simple! I had included a letter from my Neurologist stating I should be on the enhanced rate, and made it clear that my condition varied and that I also use a wheelchair. 

Perhaps I should have lied and ticked the other box!! But why should I!! I still endeavour to walk when I can and ALWAYS do the best I can.

Still I am happy, I don't need to worry again for a good while. 

 

Edited 30 Jun 2020, 1:29 pm by Nick

[Stumbler]

@Nick , you've probably sold yourself short by not completing the form to reflect your bad days. That isn't lying.

They would probably award the higher rates, if you traversed the Mandatory Reconsideration and even went for an Appeal. They tend to cave in quite quickly.

 

However, it's your call and you appear to be happy with the present result.

 

[Nick]

Thanks John,

 

I'm not sure how I feel about that.  The award did give me the enhanced rate of care, which could be construed as 'overstated', again I explained in great detail my particular needs here. So really it is the wrong way around, ie, I should have had higher on the mobility and standard on the care. In this respect I feel that the award value is probably about correct.  

I've explained this in detail on here to demonstrate the  ludicrous idea that such assessments could ever be reduced to a simple computer algorithm.

However this is the position we find ourselves in and where I once would have contested it vigorously, these days I must accept that things are not perfect. I simply don't have the energy!

Once again I shoud explain to anyone new reading this, that it is imperative to comprehend that completing these forms does requires a lot of knowledge understanding how to complete them correctly. I have always done things myself, however I would strongly recommend that people use an advocate from one of the various charities to help you. I've always taken a keen interest in all this and use the skilled information provided by the Benefit&works people, but as you can see it might have been more prudent to use  a dedicated advocate to fight my case.

[Stumbler]

I understand and respect your decision,@Nick .

 

Thanks for explaining the rationale behind your decision and the advice for those going forward into this process. 

 

 

[WobblyGreg]

I fully understand Nicks decision and his acceptance , end of day (hate that expresion) the DWP sold him short on one but gave him more on another evens out .

 

The stress involved fighting the Nazis is time consuming and probably contributed to my recent need to now see 2 shrinks 1 for anger management 1 for general MS type stuff which is due to being back in loop see earlier posts .

Though like my MS nurse said I could never prove it was the 9 month wait that caused anger issues .😤

 

Anyways Nick you have an enviable award in terms of time limit gives you breathing space and time to decide if you want to go for higher award.

 

I would as you suggested use an expert helps,  for me mine kept me calm(ish).😂

And she was very high up in NHS with disabled family member so knows both sides and what to say etc. 

 

[Nick]

Wobblygreg,

 

The importance of not getting stressed over these matters cannot be overstated.  I recall that at the point of my own diagnosis and its resulting meltdown of my life, one of the shocking discoveries was how the benefit system works.  Learning to overcome this shock, and not beating myself up over it, took me a very long time. Lucky for us there are a lot of people out there much more capable of bringing pressure to bear on the system, which they do.  You cannot approach these matters from the front, this is not where the problem lies. The problem lies with the system and to make any progress one has to first understand that, and then work with it. This is what a good advocate does. They know their onions! They correctly know what the questions mean and know how to correctly answer them, this favours a 'possible' best outcome. 

It is a different matter to try to change the system. After all the whole thing has always been political, these days that means the principle of the Libertarian. A combination of central governance and allowing the private sector in has resulted (in my view) into a position that is very inflexible and difficult to use. The classic case being the very way the PIP system was semi privatised and it's resulting clunkiness. I only explain this political view to show how it's pointless in getting angry with the poor guy/girl on the end of the telephone!

 

Don't stress! in the immortal words of Bob Marley " Don't worry be happy", easy I know to say, difficult to achieve !

 

Nick

Edited 1 Jul 2020, 12:10 pm by Nick

[WobblyGreg]

I stress I get angry it's what I do.😂

 

Been the same most of my adult life .

My friend ( I don't take my wife to appeals etc. She is probably more stressy than me )

 

Knows me well. Was very high up in NHS only answerable to a minister.

Was in charge of St Barts before illness.

She trained in mental health as well her background is very similar to mine probably why we get on .

 

One of few ppl I would actually take advice or help from tbh.

 

"Anger is an energy" John Lydon

 

[Gosport Nancy]

I stopped stressing over P.I.P and decided to fund my disability needs by adding several more income streams to my business model. After all, these are MY disability needs and the last time I looked, the government and the DWP are not my parents and so aren't responsible for supporting me.

 

I  am now working full time in my business, rather than part time and am really engaging with what I do.

 

As an aside, apart from the difficulty with sorting out regular on-line groceries a few weeks ago, the only way anyone could tell my household was on lockdown would be by counting our face masks, bottles of hand geland toilet rolls

 

Oh...and did I say...I'm writing a book on what it has been like day to day during lockdown? :)