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xmaster

LDN, Insomnia and Histamine

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xmaster

[Marina's note - I've split this topic as it's on a different subject to that which it was added to - hope this is OK with you]

 

Just for you information I am investigating Dr Kleener's protocol because we too are looking for something better than LDN. Looks good but not sure yet. That was invented in the 1940's so why has that still not been formally evaluated - perhaps because there is no money in it for the drug industry?

Greetings,

 

Just wondering if what you are investigating is Histamine?

 

It is my 6th week on LDN (started with 3.5mg for two weeks and then moved to 4.5mg) and 4th week on Histamine. I also inject active formula of B-12 (1CC) every second day.

 

I don't know what does better for me LDN or Histamine, but I feel better over all. The only side effect that I have from LDN is Insomnia. When I say Insomnia I mean, I can't sleep without sleeping tablet (Zopiclone 7.5mg). I tried 5mg, but it only worked for a few hours.

 

I don't think sleeping tablet is a good idea, but this is the only option for me to get some sleep. I'm still a neebie when it comes to LDN, but after trying herbal and other alternative medicine this is the first drug that I took.

 

Marina, and other experienced members on the board, please send your comments about LDN+Sleeping tablet, LDN+Histamine+Sleeping tablet.

 

Cheers,

 

xMaster


(RR MS - DX November 06)

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davidtaylor603

Only experience with LDN, so I can only comment on the other issue from what I have read. Insomnia is a commonly experienced side effect in the initial weeks on LDN but should subside on its own without needing sleeping pills. I would be concerned about taking sleeping pills with LDN just in case it worked against the benefits of LDN, but then if you find insomnia continues long term on LDN you have a difficult issue because lack of sleep is also not good for you. Dr Baharie strongly recommended against taking LDN in the morning to avoid this problem but on the other hand some seem to do this and still achieve good results but I would suggest the number of reports from people doing this is far too small to draw any reasonable conclusions. You have to sleep so it could be something worth considering providing you keep careful notes to ensure LDN used in the morning does not do harm rather than good. Serc 16 (Histamine) is one of the treatments recommended by Dr Lawrence and seems to improve things in those who use it. Histamine is also one of the active ingredients in Prokarin with has been subject to a small successful trial. B12 is uses as an official treatment for Gillian Bari (MS of the peripheral nervous system) several people used it and report good effects. The official reason that B12 will not work for MS is that it will not pass across the blood Brain barrier. I have a jaundice view of experts who do not know what causes MS and do not know how to fix but are certain that something like B12 will not work. The risk must be negligible if you are taking a recognised safe dose so if you think it works I would keep doing it.

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Sluggish
Marina

As David says, insomnia can be an initial side effect of LDN but should wear off within the first weeks.

 

Re time of dose, it's said it should be taken between 9pm and 2am, even if one's working shift hours, as that's the time of day (or rather, night) when the endorphins get working.

 

How quickly did you move up to 4.5mg? If recently, it might be that you're getting initial side-effects from the increased dose? If you find that you're a bit worse on 4.5mg or that the insomnia really isn't going away, and if the 4.5 mg dose isn't helping you anymore than the 3mg did, you might want to try going back to 3mg and see how you do on it? Maybe you need to experiment with the dosage a bit more whilst cannily going up from 3 to 4.5mg. This can also be done easier with the liquid version as you can increase the dose gradually in .5mg steps rather than going straight from 3 to 4.5mg. Some people also say they do better on the very low 1 mg (usually men though, for some reason).

 

Some people can't tell what benefits they might be getting for some months, even a year, before being able to judge how the LDN is working, especially if there is no symptom relief, as it can take that long to judge whether relapses are fewer etc. It's also said that if you feel no better but no worse, then it's worth sticking to the LDN as it could well be working as you're not getting worse. The key isn't so much being better on it, it's more not being worse and not having relapses (or having reduced relapses) whilst on it.

 

I wasn't put up to 4.5mg till about 3 months later, but found I did better on 3mg so returned to that.

 

I'm afraid I've not heard of any histamine treatment for MS...


Marina

(belated DX in June '05, SPMS)

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xmaster

Greetings,

 

I started on LDN with 3mg for two weeks and then moved to 4.5mg. Now I think I should of stick with 3mg longer then just two weeks. I work full time and I need my sleep to get me through the day.

 

I will give another month and if nothing changes, I will go back to 3mg and slowly take it from there.

 

I guess I'm the only one on ( LDN+Histamine+B12+Sleeping tablet formula, and will try to keep accurate track of my progress. I really wish to drop the last component in my formula.

 

I get relapses every 3 months and it has been pretty consistent for the last 12 month. I recover 90%-95% within 3-4 weeks. I started LDN+B12 on a 3rd day after my last relapse. My Interferon doctor suggested steroids to help me recover faster, but I always take alternative ways and took LDN+B12 instead. I'm about 85% recovered and I'm sure (hope, wish, prey) it will get better soon. Last relapse hit my eyes; I had slow focus effect and lost my side vision. Now being on LDN, I look forward to extend remittance and skip a few relapses. This is my


(RR MS - DX November 06)

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Marina

Yes, xmaster, you got it right :thumbsup: Half of me is a mix of Russian and Romanian (with a bit of German thrown in that half too), hence the "Marina" name. The other half of me is Irish, hehe. But I'm born and brought up in England, making me British.

 

I spoke a tiny bit of Russian as a small child but have forgotten it all now. So I'll reply in Romanian instead (which I only know a tiny bit of) even though they're totally different languages with Romanian based on Latin - cu placere! (with pleasure)

 

I forgot to say earlier that I'm on B12 shots too, but once every 3 months - 1000 ug or something. I didn't know one can have shots daily... it must be a lower dose?

 

One can be on steroids when taking LDN but it's best to stop the LDN whilst on the steroids and for a few weeks after. Steroids stop LDN from working and need to be out of the system before the LDN can work again. At the same time, LDN doesn't stop steroids from working.

 

Yes, I'd suggest trying the 3mg for say at least 3 months before going up to 4.5mg again. I tried more than once, and the 2nd time I was on the liquid and went up gradually in doses of .5mg at a time. But I found I was a tiny bit worse on 4.5mg so I went back to 3mg. Each person is different, some people find 1mg suits them best. It can be very much a matter of trial and error in the first year or so.

 

Remember, you may not notice changes in the sense of symptom relief. The main point of LDN is to make relapses fewer and milder if at all. Any symptom relief is considered a bonus, although about 50% of users claim to have some symptom relief.

 

Good luck and let us know how you fare over time :chickendance:


Marina

(belated DX in June '05, SPMS)

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