smoking grass

[Michelle]

http://www.mentalhealthcare.org.uk/content/?id=30

 

Just adding my findings. I have personally smoked a joint whislt at university. I can't say that it did anything for me. In the past I was employed by a specialist agency that worked with youngsters. Part of my training involved a course in drug awareness, and the effects that drugs have on young people. I would certainly discourage the use of cannabis as a recreational drug. I have also lived next to a family who openly smoked cannabis. I have seen the effect that it had on their family unit, when used on a frequent basis. I have also worked alonside other mental health professionals, and social workers, and have seen the negative side of such a drug.

Like any drug, you must always make an informed decision, on whether to use the drug or not. As we all know! cannabis is illegal!

Nice to be back

Michelle

P.S I used the word 'recreational' in relation to youngsters. Please don't think that I used this in relation to MS.

[linds]

Nice to have you back Michelle Rgds Linda

[Marina]

I think it needs to be remembered that the use of cannabis in MS is not recreational nor is it intended to be... (which some of you may already have mentioned). There is something in cannabis that seems to help symptoms such as spasms and pain. It's therefore somewhat unlikely, I would think, that MSers using cannabis would then want to try harder drugs to acquire more of a "high" without gaining any symptom relief.

 

Apparently Sativex tastes disgusting and the manufacturers have tried to remove some of the parts that causes the "high" and, if I remember correctly (which I might not) they are continuing to work on removing all of the "high". So the MSers who are using it, aren't doing so for any "high" they might get, and certainly aren't enjoying the taste. If there weren't some evidence to show that cannabis helps in MS, then I somehow don't think the manufacturers of Sativex would have seen a viable proposition in producing it.

 

Re LDN, indeed the side effects are negligible, some people report some mild sleep problems in the first week or two, but it passes. Others have found it to help a bit with depression too. If you have a weak liver, however, it's preferable to be monitored but I now forget why. Certainly a lot less toxic and with far few side-effects than the injectable DMD's.

 

Mary made some very good points about the effects of alcohol as opposed to cigarettes. I've never been aware of smokers becoming aggressive or abusive or having changes of personality with one too many... I agree entirely with her on those points.

 

Back to cannabis, smoking it is not the healthiest of ways to take it... even without tobacco mixed in with it. First, one's wasting a certain amount of it in burning much of it in-between puffs; secondly, one's still inhaling something deeply into the lungs and I don't know if it's known to be a health hazard or not to do so. What I understand many MSers who don't like smoking it do, is to bake cakes with it or use it in some other pre-heated edible form. I'm no expert, so can't really say!

[Jayneanne]

Interesting Marina, that they have not attempted to remove the "high" from alcohol.

I really do have an aversion to double standards..............

 

Mary, I think there are people still trying to break thro the barriers of Glaxo to make someone stand up and be responsible but I believe to this day that the drug company denies all accusations

Take a look on 'you tube' there is a wealth of info on Paxil/seroxat - scary stuff

Gaynor, did you take any other medication after you got off Seroxat or are you doing ok on your own?

[angela]

Hi

I've been taking Sativex for nearly 5 years, and yes it does taste absolutely disgusting I'm on quite a high dose of seven sprays six times a day (42) and in all the time I've been taking it the only time I've ever had a high was whilst taking "oral" steroids never when on intravenous. I have never taken cannabis any otherway and would like to say I never would, but if Sativex was withdrawn because of the benefits it gives me I wouldn't guarantee it now.

 

Angela

[Gaynor]

After the Seroxat, no I didn't take anything else JA. I'd never take anything again either!

 

 

Back to Cannabis once again. Did anybody see 'Should I smoke dope?' on BBC Three last night? VERY interesting and definately worth a watch for anyone who just wants to know facts and alot more information on what is a taboo subject. I wanted to learn more and I can't recommend it highly enough. It was 50 minutes long and can be viewed online (if you are living in UK) for the next 6 days. It looks at the effects of smoking it, touches on MS with one lady's story and a month long experiment is undertaken by the narrator. It goes into the various types, strengths, legalities,psychosis and long term effects.

 

Here's the link

http://www.bbc.co.uk/bbcthree/programmes/schedules/

 

 

Gaynor

[Jayneanne]

I tried to watch the video in case it didn't know I was in Spain (thought I'd catch it out LOL) but to no avail.

Can anyone give me a low down, would be very interested to see if the use was considered to be of positive benefit.

Cheers for that Gaynor. I seem to do be doing not too bad on my self help withdrawal program, just reducing a little day by day. I'll be glad to get it out of my system

[Gaynor]

Yes JA, out of the system is definatley a good thing.

 

As for Cannabis and the like, that (in my mind) is also better being out of your system! ...and never in it.

 

The programme mainly highlighted so many kinds as seen in the coffee shops in Amsterdam. The lady owner of one coffee house had labeled jars (like a sweet shop!) and they sold it there and then very openly for people to smoke in the cafe.

 

There were many, many sorts and strengths and usually predictable in how they affect you and what they give you....some a hysterically laughing high, to others that made you feel paranoid, lost and completely drunk and quite ill. That was scary watching the effect that had on the woman doing the trial....

who tried many types over her month long (often unpleasant) experiment.

 

The MS older lady was baking it in cake form for herself....well like a piece of fudge form really. A low amount she consumed but in a piece 5 times a day. Telling her story of court, Police in her house to search etc but still that doesn't seem to put her off.

 

We then saw kids of today and just how many (sadly) use it and their experiences. To be honest JA there was just so much info in the prog and it's just a pity you can't get to watch it.

 

Gaynor

[Jayneanne]

Thanks for that Gaynor

I wonder if it will come up on you tube, I'll take a look and see

[gareth]

wow. this topic has certainley got people talking. here are my thoughts.

 

cannabis is a natural plant that has grown on the earth for many years. if it helps take the pain away for a short time where's the harm? there has been a lot of press recently about possible mental problems associated with long term use but there is always a small minority of people that will abuse a su8bstance. alcohol in moderation does not turn you in to an alcoholic. if cannabis is used sensibly it could bring pain relief, a small respite from other wise constant pain. a natural remedy that may help rather than synthesised perscribed drugs that a lot of people are having horrendous side effects.

 

the whole smoking thing casn be another issue for a lot of people so cook with it instead. small doses in your favourite dish could be very beneficial to some people.

 

and while it remains illegal you've got two options to get hold of it. mix with (dare i say) criminals or grow your own. both have repercussions if caught and a possible criminal conviction.

 

while it's still illegal in the uk, it's up to our dutch friends to grow and breed stronger and stronger strains for consumption in coffee shops. in leaving the breeding to people who are lo0oking for a recreational high, we are losing a lot of the beneficial (for medical use) properties. sativex was developed using ? billion pounds of the tax payers money when we've got a plant that has exactly the same effect. does this strike anybody else as odd or is it just me?

 

cannabis can also help cancer and aids patients. it can help to stimulate appetite and sleep.

 

sorry if i rambled a bit on that. the whole cannabis/drugs issue has so many other sides to it than simple pain relief for ill people.

 

 

 

[Jayneanne]

there has been a lot of press recently about possible mental problems associated with long term use but there is always a small minority of people that will abuse a su8bstance.

 

You are right Gareth and the mental problems I have been experiencing were from a prescription drug which is widely used and continues to be so with the knowledge of the drug company ( I am withdrawing slowly from this nasty pill)

[Jayneanne]

Guess who quoted the wrong bit LOL

[mayb]

Your heart was in the right place jayneanne even while your brain was somewher else (with mine probably ) so I think we got the message there. I do agree with gareth though - it is such a silly situation and they are thinking of making it worse with new classification for cannabis again.

 

It is difficult if you have spent years (as I have) making sure to steer children away form taking any drugs to suddenly alter your mindset. I have always kept an open mind on this myself, perhaps because I was around in the happy hippy days. I totally accept there are some potentially dangerous strands of cannabis being brought onto the market now. The obvious solution would be to get basic canabis from your pharmacist or doctor - or be like the dutch and have it tested. In the end you would take great risks obtaining the stuff no matter how medicinal your need might be.

 

In this world where MS sufferers are finding it difficult to get DLA even, you have to wonder who the real enemies are and where the worst abuses are too. After trawling your way through several jobsworths to get the basic help you need it is enough to make you weep.

 

I am feeling particularly strongly about this right now as I have just visited my 80 year old dad in hospital. There he sits all day on his own without even a window to view the world with. Why? Becuase they haven't got round to getting the Parkinson specialist to sort out his pills and nobody has visited his home to assess his needs there. So they wont discharge him. He has not had so much as a walking frame to help him out at home. My mother, 78, is his carer and has many health issues of her own to deal with. Whenever he had a fall it was necessary to call out an ambulance crew to pick him up again if no family available to call on. What is going on here? If I felt my dad could better wile away his time smoking canabis I would roll him one myself. He is fully compos mentis most of the time and desperate to get home to his wife and the everyday comforts and conversation he had at home - he needs familiarity and stimulation to keep him on the ball. Nobody about to arrest the NHS for neglect of duty or anything when they don't give him his pills on time and make his Parkinson's worse! I had better stop there before I go up in smoke. I have a funny feeling all of the money is being spent trawling the net to see if anybody is talking about cannabis and adding them to a hit list!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! so just in case cannabis cannabis cannabis so there!

[Michelle]

Hi

If I remember correctly the UK now exports more cannabis than we import. I must stress that the use of cannabis whether you smoke one joint or many, does have mind altering side effects. Ofcourse there are always folk who have a problem with substance abuse - but this is a smoke screen (excuse pun) for the use of cannabis.

I do respect the fact that watching loved ones suffering pain is very difficult. I watched my father suffer for many years, and saw a very close friend of mine die from cancer. Personally, even though I know of people who can supply me with the drug - I would have never allowed my dad to roll a joint

It's a sad reflection on our society when folks pain is not managed, and they are left to suffer.

I also respect the fact that legal prescription drugs have mind altering properties, and some have perculiar side-effects ( having taken a few myself.) Please don't think that cannabis is the answer to pain relief. It's not! Good pain management involves a combination approach.

I must dash - I'm supposed to be somewhere else All Gareth fault

Michelle

[Jayneanne]

I have a funny feeling all of the money is being spent trawling the net to see if anybody is talking about cannabis and adding them to a hit list!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! so just in case cannabis cannabis cannabis so there!

Haven't had such a belly laugh in ages, and it is still going on............................................................................

YOU ARE SUCH A REBEL MARY LOL

I think that after reading all of these posts with avid interest, I am right there with you

CANABIS! CANABIS! CANABIS! so there as well!

I guess that is one of the best parts of growing older that you really dont give a about speaking out

[Marina]

if cannabis is used sensibly it could bring pain relief, a small respite from other wise constant pain. a natural remedy that may help rather than  synthesised perscribed drugs that a lot of people are having horrendous side effects.

I've been pretty much keeping out of this debate for now, but I do think Gareth has hit it on the nail in how he describes it above, with the key words being "used sensibly".

 

I've even heard of neuros recommending it, so it can't be all that bad for use in MS.

 

Many years ago, I knew someone with a severe form of PPMS. There were no drugs then to help, and still aren't really, for PPMS. He would use cannabis as it was the only thing that helped him a tiny bit.

 

I guess what it boils down to is a matter of How, Where, When and Why.

[Heste]

While we are on this topic I thought it would be a good idea to make sure we all have the facts about this drug and as I don't think anyone has posted this link I thought I would.

 

Talk to Frank

 

This is an independant government funded site.

 

Regards,

 

John

[Marina]

Tons more links here:

http://www.google.com/search?sourceid=mozc...ple%2Bsclerosis

both "formal" and not.

[linds]

Given the chance I would use Savatex....but not been offered it. Lin

[Michelle]

I must disagree with the 'use sensibly'. It doesn't make sense to use an illegal drug. Not in my books!

Regards

Michelle

P.S I still love you all

[Michelle]

Just starting on BBC2 9pm - A programme about 'Alternative Therapies'

Michelle

[mayb]

I agree about the risks of using an illegal drug - it is the fact that it is illegal to use when it is known to have beneficial effects to those in pain that I would query. If they would just get on with the business of making it available on prescription in whatever format they can, the problem would not be here for us to be discussing really.

 

I am sure we all still love you too mich and it is refreshing that we can have such a discussion on here without falling out about it too.

 

In the end whatever we think or say the facts are that it is illegal and while that is the case anyone using it runs some risks as to quality and of prosecution. I do think those risks are not taken lightly by those using it and it also reflects their belief in its properties to relieve pain. We are not discussing the social use of cannabis after all. I don't have a moral stance on this and would join the users if I felt it was the only option for my problems in the future but would want to be able to do that without risk to myself or to others.

 

I would and have always discouraged my lads from using any drugs whatsoever as most mums would. This is a different discussion altogether I feel. We are all on drugs - ours just happen to be medicinal and prescribed therefore legal. It does not make them safer or less addictive or without unpleasant and damaging side effects either.

 

I do remember the advert from my youth declaring ms destroys lives!! Why should we have our lives destroyed if there is something available to help stop that from happening? One way or another we discuss the pros and cons of taking those drugs offered to some for halting the progress of ms and it has to be a personal decision for them. LDN is another example - not illegal but not readily available on prescription either. It should be a personal decision for those who have the need for cannabis to make that choice too - but it should be an informed one.

 

Here's hoping you all still love me too!!

 

love

Mary

xx

[Jayneanne]

Obviously got too much time on my hands!

 

Many of these posts regarding cannabis have pointedly stressed the fact that the use of such a drug/medication is illegal.

 

I am in fact an ex-police officer (pre kids) and along with other coppers have often laughed at the stupidity of the British laws and legal system.

 

I hope you can have a chuckle at some of the following "LAWS" ;-

 

It is illegal to sell most goods on a Sunday, it is however legal to sell a carrot. It is also legal to sell it at any price and to give free gifts with it

 

It is illegal for a lady to eat chocolates on a public conveyance. (This one is for you Mary! LOL)

 

It is illegal to die in the Houses of Parliament. (That was my dying wish)

 

It is an act of treason to place a postage stamp bearing the British monarch upside-down.

 

It is illegal for a woman to be topless except as a clerk in a tropical fish store, but only in Liverpool (who was it that loves tropical fish?)

 

It is illegal to eat Mince pies on Christmas Day.

 

It is illegal to enter the Houses of Parliament in a suit of armour.

 

It is illegal to drive cows down the roadway between 10 AM and 7 PM unless there is prior approval from the Commissioner of Police.

 

Any person found breaking a boiled egg at the sharp end will be sentenced to 24 hours in the village stocks (enacted by Edward VI).

 

It is illegal to impersonate a Chelsea Pensioners.

 

It is illegal to hang your bed out of a window.

 

It is illegal for any boy under the age of 10 to see a naked manequin.

 

It is illegal to go overdrawn on your bank account.

 

THIS ONE I REALLY FIND AMUSING.......................

 

It is illegal to be drunk on Licensed Premises (in a pub or bar). Bet you didn't know that one!

:hehehe

 

I'm sure that there are loads more to add to this list which are equally ridiculous.

However as everyone here has rightly commented, the law is the law!

Quite ironic really that I live somewhere where it is not illegal and have never tried it. Maybe one day I'll give it a go...................

[Michelle]

I think it's safe to say; that the law is an ass at times!

Michelle

[mayb]

Oh jayneanne what a collection - I have visions of a person wearing a suit of armour and carrying a letter to an MP with the queen upside down on the stamp dying as he enters the Houses of Parliament, where a half naked, Liverpudlian fish seller eating a bar of chocolate, having arrived by train, is waiting to appeal to someone about her arrest because of her overdraft.

 

My God I would be permanantly behind bars - not the sort you couldn't get drunk in either.

 

I don't know jayneanne, but to me it sounds as if you got high on something!