dismissal, ill health early retirment, disability discrimination?

[Limara]

any advice really dont know where to turn right now, Hubby has worked for the same company for 17 years, his job has recently changed and there has been several months of conspiracy to get him out, Instead of looking at what adjustments they could make they have been on a mission to prove he cant do the new job with nothing short of lies.

The company appears to have followed correct procedure but have lied and fabricated questions to get the answers they require, one of them being can he walk 3 miles. of course he cant but a motorised vehicle had already been discussed with his immediate manager.

Its all about the work hours changing and they sold this to him, his consultant and the works doctor as being working 4x12 hour shifts together when the actual hours are mainly 2 on 2 off with the most days together being 3 days and only 2 instances of this in a month! a HUGE difference!

Everyhting that could incriminate them is missing from the case management package,( but we do have copies of the majority of them) he had the final stage meeting last week and was given 12 weeks notice, dont actually know what reason it is because he has asked the union rep about going for unfair dismissial and according to him he hasnt been dismissed. According to the case management package he should have been told how to appeal at the meeting and he wasnt, and still dont know ( time is ticking away fro he 14 day deadline)

He has said all along that he doesnt want to take early retirement but will be forced into something we cant live on the pension let alone nothing! and being capable of doing a job with the employer that is bound to make adjustments and keep you is very different to getting another job!

Hes now been told to apply for IHR although it looks like this should have been done before the final stage meeting came about, I cant see how he can be trying to prove he should have IHR and prove he can work 12 hour shifts at the same time?

He was asked to sign a disclaimer at the meeting and offered his notice pay to be paid tax free, he refused they apparantly were quite shocked. From what I can see they wernt actually giving him anything as aits just a different way of paying notice pay.

I really think he has more than enough to take this for discrimination

I cant believe you can work for an employer and come out of it with nothing but the pension you have paid for and be forced to have no job because of a disability.

any help and advice, tired local disability place before he actually lost his job they gave him the phone number of a good laywer and havent been able to contact.

he has secondary progressive and in the last 5 months its made him worse than the last 5 years have MS nurse does say its stress, making him worse.

[Nick]

Limara,

 

I know from my own experience just how big a shock it is to lose your career due to the complications of employment legislation and ill health. In my case my employer were supportive however government legislation saw me unable to continue with work due to my SPMS. This is a very very difficult situation for you both, I know so well what it is like to try and take on such a situation when your MS really doesn't want to be put in such a position. My heart goes out to you both and the only useful advice I can give is that at this point you need additional support to take on the whole thing and take some of the stress of your husband. One useful contact may be the disability law service.

http://ms-people.com/forum/links/link/105-disability-law-service/

which will be well worth contacting. When I was made redundant I did not have this contact and found that my union were unfamiliar with recent changes to the law regarding disability legislation and employment.

I really hope this can be of some help to you

 

Best from

Nick

Edited 9 Oct 2013, 9:20 am by Nick

[Stumbler]

Is the company making major changes and rationalising the workforce or are they just "picking" on your husband?

Your husband's union should be the main ally in this argument, as there may be infringements of the Equality Act, which covers discrimination because of disability.

 

Otherwise, the Citizens Advice Bureaux may be able to help.

 

Additionally, the following website may be useful, if the union can't help :- http://www.dls.org.uk/

 

Sorry that you and your husband are going through this, the stress of the situation will not help either of you. So, get the Union onside and let them fight your corner.

 

Hope this helps.

 

Edited 9 Oct 2013, 9:22 am by Stumbler

[Limara]

thanks guys union at the min seem to be nothing short of useless, the company have been working on a new plant and have switched every one over to the new plant automatically except him, they actually started the mission to get rid of him a few weeks before they went over to the new plant, so he was took off the old job just before the new plant opened

going to try CAB tomorrow, really worried how he should be fighting to keep this job and trying to get back up that he could work those shifts and applying for the ill health pension not being fit to work at all at the same time this is contradictive to me. I spoke to the union rep yeaterday as hubby seems to be unable to even think straight at the minute and hes still saying he hasnt been dismissed and was quite surprised to find he has been told he is not expected to work notice, and his immediate boss has asked what he wasnted to do for a leaving do1

He was supposed to see company doctor today ( les than 24 hours notice fom the company) have put that off because we think its for the ill health pension and need advice about claiming that and trying to prove he can do the job, really worried he will come out of this without even the pension same company have done this before several years ago,I found a ommbidusmans report online and the case i saw if you change the name and conditions its almost identical he came out of it with nothing and the pension was refused.

The trouble is now that when they started all this he was quite capable of doing the job, hes now gone downhill so fast at the minute he probably wouldnt be able to do it, even a phone call telling him the date of the final hearing made his leg worse, as we still have all this stresss its just getting worse without improving.

The union rep also said they company have recently got rid of another employee with the same condition and they didnt offer them IHR like we should be grateful If I was the union rep I would be looking if I could find any similarity between the cases!

[Stumbler]

It sounds like the union are as useful as a chocolate teapot, or they're in the employer's pockets. If they're a big union, you could try and escalate it up their ranks.

 

Otherwise, you seem to be looking at a case of constructive dismissal, where the Employers have gone out of their way to make it difficult for your hubby.

 

On the face of it, this does seem to contravene the Equality Act 2010, so you would need advice from CAB and/or DLS.

 

Edited 9 Oct 2013, 2:41 pm by Stumbler

[Nick]

This is definitely a case where you need some professional assistance. This link gives some indication of your position. Somebody who is formally diagnosed as having MS is classed as 'disabled' under the law and the equalities act is quite clear about the situation regarding redundancy. https://www.gov.uk/rights-disabled-person/employment However it's a complicated position and it needs somebody with full knowledge to advise you. As John suggests get hold of CAB or DIAL and also contact DLS.

I know what it's like, its all happening so quickly and nothing seems right. A situation possibly where you need more time? The fact that the situation is affecting your husbands health means it might be worth talking to your own GP or MS Nurse about temporary sick leave.

Another contact point should be ACAS. http://www.acas.org.uk/index.aspx?articleid=1410

Also this information may be of help. http://www.disabilityrightsuk.org/sites/default/files/pdf/DWD%202007.pdf

Nick

Edited 9 Oct 2013, 3:34 pm by Nick

[Limara]

thanks for the links Nick, no redundancy just dismissing on grounds he can no longer do his job. no mention of any redundancey according to union if he gets redundancy he cant claim pension untill hes 55 ( now 51) so at the min goverment guideline for redundancey the company would have to pay its even less than the pension. I cant believe you work 17.5 years for a company then just get kicked out because they no longer want you with no compensation package at all! we all suffered as a family as well because the job entailed 24 hour call outs and being on duty I may as well been a single parent when the kids were little, as he worked so many hours,

He already spoke to Acas before the final stage meeting and the only help they could give was that the company should be able to find him alternative employment ( which they havent) he was told monday he doesnt have to work the notice so i guess sick leave wouldnt be appropiate They are aware he is covered by DDA then the equality act 2010 as the doctors reports have mentioned that on every letter from them.

In all fairness to the union at the min they only know what the company presented at the meeting, that was just as engineered as the questions had been along the way they answered everything with inappropiate answers, I have gone through it and presented all the evidence to him, whcih he is supposed to be showing the Full time officer. We, have a meeting with shop stweard on friday we are trying to get to CAB tomorrow.

 

yes Stumbler of course they are in the companies pockets, Unions rep works for the company, Occy health guess what paid for by company full time and company Doctor part time paid for by company of course all of them are going to present what the company wants! which became apparant with the first oh assesment that took him off the job, ( didnt observe him at work ) then he got another assessment for the temp job he was put on which ticked every box that would have been appropiate to the new work not one thing applied to the job he was doing at the time. Also the union rep told him to go off sick I didnt think that was wise as they were already saying he cant do the job and as far as I can see that would have been playing into their hands and I dound out the prodecure would go ahead with ot without him, and was also told to complain about the Doctor, that he would love to do BUT again if his pension will rely on him also not wise thing to do! trouble is they are a major employer and we are fighting the big boys and they always get what they want the way they want it, and it seems like the lads are always sold out by the union so i doubt we stand a chance.

[Nick]

It's very hard I know, When I was forced to give up I was in complete shock and it seemed I could get no sensible answers anywhere. I think you need to work through all this and get past that feeling of anger. (I know I was more than angry over what happened to me) By understanding all the decisions and ensuring things have been done 'by the book' you will at least know you have got the best outcome even if you then feel that this was not a good outcome. With me I really didn't know what was happening at the time and could not understand why everyone failed to comprehend the seriousness of the situation. This was very damaging to my health and this simply made things worse. Things do move on and will get sorted out. I had a lot of help via my MS Nurse at the time which was invaluable. Your husband also needs your full support which can be very hard when you can't see the way forward. I have not worked for over 5 years and get no support from the government but survive on a small ill health pension, This would have seemed very difficult 5 years ago but it is possible to re-arrange your whole life, it just takes a lot of time and effort.

Nick

[Limara]

Tied CAB they apparantly dont have a specialist in this field getting silly now, gave phone no for local disability people he initially tried.hopefully union will come up with something tomorrow.

[Muirie]

Limara,

 

I sadly have no useful advice like the rest of the guys. I just have great sympathy for you and your husband and I hope that the situation gets resolved in your favour.

 

Muirie

[Limara]

Limara,

 

I sadly have no useful advice like the rest of the guys. I just have great sympathy for you and your husband and I hope that the situation gets resolved in your favour.

 

Muirie

thankyou you know kind words can be a help too :)

[Stumbler]

It might be a good time to enlist the assistance of your MP and see if they can help.

 

Just a thought.

 

[Limara]

well from what we have found out so far it seems that the laws are not worth the paper they are written on! he is going to appeal not that will do any good but I guess that will be procedure followed!

The company think they can wriggle out of doing anything by saying there are no reasonable adjustments they could make which of course is not true but the whole point of this is the company have lied about everything and they shouldnt be allowed to get away with it

[Crafty Cow]

My only suggestion I could possibly come up with, is go back to the union, not the union rep that is supposedly representing your husband. Contact the union HQ, and tel them you want another representative, you feel your husband is being under represented due to a conflict of interest, ie, that the rep works for the same company, and demand someone who has no connection,or you will be taking this further.

 

I would also follow the suggestion of going to your mo, as in light of recent events with political parties and unions, the union may do everything it can to prove to the mp that they are doing everything they possibly can to help your husband.

 

Last year I was in a situation whereby work were trying to dismiss me and terminate my contract. I called the union and the guy I spoke to pretty much said, there was nothing I could do, and roll over and accept it. I spoke to my head teacher neighbor, who has been quite involved in union cases during his career. He told me to go back and complain etc etc. I did, and was given a new rep who was like a bull dog. She had no dealings with the hospital I worked at prior to this, so there was no strained familiarity. She got the absolute best for me and gave me some fantastic advice, for which I am ever grateful.

 

Good luck

 

Sam xx

Edited 12 Oct 2013, 11:39 am by Crafty Cow

[Limara]

thanks Sam, think our main problems are the union is actually employed by HR at the works, I was begining to think its only me that can see this but took all i have to a ex shop steward yesterday he looked over it and he couldnt believe it, he retired too long ago to know any of the modern day rules but as least I have managed to prove enough to convince some one with no previous knowledge to it.He fought union battles for 20 years and said he has never seen a case where the entire case is built on lies, and as far as he is concerned I have proved every one of them quite nicely.

its amazing that all the agenceys that are supposed to help dont do anything when it comes down to needing help!

[Crafty Cow]

How frustrating for you both!

 

When I felt let down by my union originally, I went to unison and asked for their help. They said that they wouldn't be able to represent me without the agreement of my original union, however, they can represent you with the present unions blessing as an 'honorary' union rep. I am guessing in your husbands case, they may say 'no' but there is no harm in asking. Why not give them a call and explain everything to them, they may be able to give you more advice to use. Especially if they can prov the union themselves are being held back by the HR department.

 

Hope you get some satisfaction soon.

 

Sam x

[Nick]

Limara,

I think everyone on here is really hoping you get a decent result here. It's interesting that you have the same feeling about the 'normal agencies' being of not much help. This was a big leaning curve for me to. Get the story straight, push like hell, and keep asking questions. All we can do here to help is let you know that you are not alone at this time and understand that we do understand the unfairness of things.

 

Nick

[Limara]

thanks evey one, Sam thats interesting, didnt realise another union may be able to help, the ex shop steward that looked it over worked for a different union maybe he can have some words in the right direction and see if he can come up with anything, Thanks Nick with all the disability laws here are on paper I didnt realise until now they dont actually seem to mean anything! this is having such a bad effect on other half at the minute hes just muddling everything up definatly making his ms sooooooo much worse as well.

I already feel like giving up even though we havent really started, I have been used to bashing my head against the wall over the years as my daughter is handicapped, and you need to bash it very hard just to get necessary equipment like walking frames! but even all those fights along the way are not a tiny patch on what we are getting with this one!

Its just took me 3 days to transcript one of the mp3 files into words from the dismissal meeting ( only 2 more to go lol) I will carry on because as a company they shouldnt be able to get away with it and they have got far too confortable with bringing out whatever changes they want making threats to stop the workers striking it time they had some one fight back.

[Stumbler]

This Government website may provide you with further options, he says hopefully.

 

https://www.gov.uk/rights-disabled-person/further-help-and-advice

 

[Limara]

new update to this old thread and the troubles not only go on they have been getting worse every day!

 

He appealed the decision and the outcome of that was undecided (more like he has so much on them they needed to have a chance to cover their backs) as he had said they had done the questions to get the answers they wanted they now wanted him to do the questions, he did that they changed them this went on for 4 weeks, I now have 35 a4 pages of e mails back and fowards printed out, The HR woman takes 4 or so days to reply then either replies with nothing to do with the e mail thats been sent her or replies with something changed but then one one the previous items that had been took out has been slotted back in yet again. This has obviously been delaying tatics, now they cant get the information required before his leaving date. I have been questions this all along becasue of their pension rules you have to still be in employment when you apply for IHP

so now just for the final kick in the teeth he was told friday that his pittance of a pension will be reduce to a derferrd pension as will not be in employment when he applies

[sparkly]

Hi limara reading your posts and feel awful for the way your husband has been treated.

Try this number I rang it for advice a few months ago concerning shift changes at my work and where I stood gave me very good advice very helpful.

 

020 7791 9800

 

MS SOCIETY AND DISABILITY LAW SERVICE.

Provides free and confidential legal advice for people with ms. The ms legal officer can advise on employment disability discrimination and welfare benefits.

Hope this ccanbe of some help.

[Limara]

Hi limara reading your posts and feel awful for the way your husband has been treated.

Try this number I rang it for advice a few months ago concerning shift changes at my work and where I stood gave me very good advice very helpful.

 

020 7791 9800

 

MS SOCIETY AND DISABILITY LAW SERVICE.

Provides free and confidential legal advice for people with ms. The ms legal officer can advise on employment disability discrimination and welfare benefits.

Hope this ccanbe of some help.

Thank you so much for that we are desperate now and only have a few days left to sort this out whist he is still in employment with the company

[sparkly]

No problem, when you ring they book you in for a telephone appointment with a solicitor mine was for the following week. Im sure if you explain to the receptionist how urgent it is they hopefully will book you in earlier.

Good luck !

[Limara]

No problem, when you ring they book you in for a telephone appointment with a solicitor mine was for the following week. Im sure if you explain to the receptionist how urgent it is they hopefully will book you in earlier.

Good luck !

 

well thats the last resort gone they apparantly only help people in the greater london area, now had more happenings this morning just before going to the company doctor there is no popint of this appeal and its hardly a fair one they have now managed to include whats its took 6 weeks to take out of the referral

[sparkly]

Sorry to hear they cant help you. I wasnt aware it was only london area I come from forest of dean area and they gave me legal advice no questions asked.

Sorry that you haven't been able to get advice that you need.

It's frightening to think a company your husband worked 17 years for can do this to him when the law is supposed help.

I really hope you both get the help you need.